http://www-10.lotus.com/ldd/46dom.nsf/Search?SearchView&Query=n%3Ftes%20and%20dead&SearchOrder=0&Start=1&Count=100

You'll find similar threads in the 5/6 and 7/8 forum as well so in the words of monarchs everywhere 'Notes is dead. Long live Notes'.

I'm really biased but there isn't another platform as easy to set up and use or as robust than Domino. Don't believe me? Set up SharePoint and call me when you're done...Want to go open source? OK, great; spin up a LAMP system and tell me when you have replication and field level ACLs working in a way that doesn't take you all of your day to manage.

Even if IBM stopped supporting it today, you'd have a good development platform for years.

The effort by Notes' competitors to take market share has a long history, IBM has gone out of their way at various times to make that effort easier (Notes is email, NO...Notes is a development platform, NO...Notes and Websphere is the answer, NO...Notes is email, NO...XPages is the thing...WTF IBM, not helpin' much...).

If you're in a battle between apps built by the organization that uses them and 'going to the cloud' with 3rd party apps...not much you can do if the business has decided to outsource app design and support.

If you're in a position to participate in a meaningful way in the conversation, be an advocate but be prepared to offer concrete advice and examples.

No technology lasts forever. If you're in the middle of your career and want to hedge your bets, learn other technologies so you can offer solutions rather than platforms. That's good advice for anyone who works for a living.

"MVC(D)" and "MVVM" describe how to multiply the amount of time it'll take to develop an application in them. "MVC(D)" will take at least 5x the cost of a Domino app. "MVVM" will take 6x (because it also has an implicit "D" in there). Never mind the risk of completely new development, that's really how much it costs.

The reasoning is pretty easy to see: Domino development, even in XPages, tries to unify the development interface. But if you're working through view, model, controller, and database, you're essentially making four different development efforts consistent with one another, often using at least 3 significantly different languages, and two more with different perspectives on coding.

(And that's actually a rather low, back-of-envelope guess. I've seen 20x & 100x in the past 5 years. I believe that's due to inexperienced developers, but I'm not sure.)

It's truly up to them. If your customer wants to spend more in development to migrate their capabilities, that's great! Just make sure they're on board, because the development cost will go up.

To me that's the main attraction of Domino. It is so fast at development.

So to change tech, you end up with a lot of work to do. Yay novelty!

Not that the change is futile: it isn't. Domino is aging, and IBM's commitment is weaker than I've seen it. There're other advantages, too. You can hire programmers who are much more familiar with the latest platform, tech, package, dev environment, technique, etc. But those advantages will not alleviate the higher cost & time to develop an application. Removing this technology has a considerable cost. Its advantage is real; Microsoft and Java sales pitches that they'll do the same ... are not so real.

So, you know. Make them aware too, so that when the novelty wears off, you can prove you estimated it accurately.

To Carl Tyler : Thanks for your attention. Keep in touch.

To Doug Finner : That's my purpose. Provide a clear answer. What if on offer sometimes IBM as partners as us, put aside our ego and answers only with domino strength, without naming Domino. I bet a bottle of champagne for the answer.
At last there are no good or bad platform, there are only god or bad solution.

To Mike Woolsey : I'm not a big XPage fan. Not for itself, but because it's a bad answer to a well known Domino limit.
1 - It alienate customers to IBM. And they look for freedom.
2 - Lot of dev I've seen reproduce old bad habits. Custom control in custom control in custom control, as sub-sub-sub form before.
Regarding MVVM and MVC, I personally developed a Domino MVC Framework, with dynamic class loading, late binding and it reduce drastically our dev and offer us lot of flexibility and ease changes. Moreover, it normalize developments and teach Domino dev team how works MVC at low level.
The MVVM part is in progress. We already connect the DOO! MVC Framework to Extjs and the upgrade to the Extjs 6.0 is in progress.

With MVC we don't make four different development, we only split dev responsibility.
Fast dev is good for quick and dirty apps or one shot ones. When the question is to handle 1000To of data (including attachments), we can't afford not to invest in Design Thinking and Design Patterns.

And as small, if it's a success, become big; Even for small apps, design is mandatory.

Oh go on give us the heads up. :-)

We have near 40,000 Users, would be nice to know if I have a Job tommorow or if I need to switch to keep it.

or a rehash for MWLUG/AUSLUG/WhateverLUG. Usually Scott Saunders (hope I got the name right) or his team present something on one of those user groups meeting.

or you would wait 2 weeks for Connect 2016. Pretty sure the old roadmap will be (somewhat) updated there.

or as Carl said, contact your local IBM sales rep.

So no road map, is the road map.

A clear plan if Domino Mail has a future, is not present, of course I don't think anyone was holding there breath at this point.

I have been involved in the Domino space for over two decades now and have seen some applications still running untouched for more than a decade.  Obviously, domino is a great platform.  The problem I have is hiring people that want to work with Domino.  Domino technology is not taught in schools.  Potential candidates may have skills with responsive javascript frameworks but none have any experience with Domino.  It's simply not popular.  However, if you want someone with .Net experience you have a lot to choose from.

You know that Quickplace grew from Domino and has morphed into Quickr and beyond.  Since acquiring about 2700 Sharepoint users, we are faced with a choice:  Convert to IBM Connections (content manager) or embrace the Microsoft trained users and support people.  Now we have IBM Verse as an email platform.  So where does domino actually fit in any more?  It seems that it fits only a small space in the app-dev continuum and other app-dev environments are way more 'main-stream'.  If I were starting a career, would I focus on domino or would I develop skills to launch corporate apps on iPhones?  How cool would that be if I could make an app to show the MSRP sticker by taking a picture of a VIN and then get the full Logistics and QM history...  

We have an incredibly homogeneous environment - 100% Notes on the desktop for 50,000+ users, yet software development is heading away from the rich security domino model.  When you have to consider the limited resources/people available for application development in Domino, it clearly is getting pushed to the back seat.  In my company SAP is the Project, Sales, Logistics and Financial platform.  Domino was never an Enterprise Resource Planning system.  So, if you start developing applications why would you ever choose Domino over SAP as a development environment?  With OpenUI5 and Hana skills I'm sure a graduating student would be way more employable than someone with XPages...  

On the other end of the spectrum - small businesses - Domino is rather expensive, so it doesn't fit there.  If a small business needs an app, it's not going to be Domino.  Even something in IBM Bluemix would be better.  I'll place bets that google docs are the platform of choice for small businesses - not domino...

IBM has an incredible amount invested in Domino, so my idea will never happen, but - open source domino and get it into colleges and universities and dorm rooms and high schools and get the cool factor happening again.  IBM can capitalize on the revenue generators (IBM Connections and Verse) and grow the domino app-dev community!